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They played very well. I think Walker hurt them this game to be honest.

But they played with an effort they should be proud of.

Pickford kept them in it but to no avail.

Southgate out!!

Yeah there was a huge hole between Saka and Walker all game and Walker didnt know whether to go right or stay central. But basically Spain were better overall.

Shame to lose without a real fight.

Southgate as stubborn as ever, stuck with his same starting eleven apart from Shaw but they couldn't get the job done and it was the subs who finally produced something.

It's time, Gareth. You tried but you're not up to the task.

But let's be honest, Spain the better side.

I agree on both counts. And really Spain has been the best team in the tournament.

Colin -

I agree England needs a coach who emphasizes attack. Without question. But Southgate managed this game very well, and his record has been excellent. He's not my favorite, and I think England can win the World Cup with the right manager. But credit to Southgate simply on results. He's been successful in regards to the bottom line metric in my opinion.

Disappointing, but the best side won.

Foden, Saka and Rice had a disappointing tournament in my opinion while Kane looks past his sharpest best that's quite clear.

The problem moving forward to future tournaments for England now is the center forward position.

Kane, Toney and Watkins all 30 or over by the World Cup and not really any sign of a future stalwart.

I could watch that kid play for hours and hours and never get tired of it. He's an amazing player.

Pickford won't be leaving, mate. He clearly loves the environment at Everton and the media for whatever reason hate him, probably because he hurt Saint Virgil years ago and he's not playing for a London darling.

He won't be leaving Everton Football Club anytime soon, relax.

Spain were the better team for sure, if there's such a thing as Player of the Tournament think I'd give it to Nico Williams.

Just beaten by a better team.

Yes, he got us to two finals but he depends too much on his media favourites.

I truly believe this team should be very proud of their effort and tournament. And I truly believe with a manager who isn't so possession and defensively minded they can win the World Cup.

Time will tell.

Look on the bright side – you could be the USA. We're a friggin' train wreck right now!!

Sorry I don't think I will relax until the transfer window closes, he may enjoy the environment at Everton, But we have new owners coming in and as businessmen who knows, as in business, money talks.

Internet bullies.

In all other respects he could be the right man, but for most of us on here, that is a bridge far too far. However, when Southgate resigns by the end of the month as he surely will, be prepared for the Klopp clamour. Heaven help us all.

Well done, Jordan. England Man of the Match.

He's done a great job.

It really is that simple... England never looked liked winning tonight.

I thought that their best player was Shaw… that tells you everything!

To win a tournament you need 3-4 players who would get into a World XI (or equivalent), as England did in 1966. You can get 8-1 on Spain winning the 2026 World Cup, which looks good value.

I've enjoyed this tournament. Lots of moments of high drama.

Thought we were going to do it for 5-6 minutes after Palmer's goal, but Spain are a class act and they soon wrested back control.

Its going to seem like an eternity between now and the new season

I'm not sure how anyone thinking England had a chance would be an "arrogant know it all". In fact, I don't know how anyone with a passing interest in football uses those words.

England, same for 40 years, just don't keep the ball well enough

Not sure where youve encountered these people but the vast majority of English fans I saw said the same as people on here: Spain have been the best team but we have a chance. I honestly cant think of anyone acting like we had it in the bag.

You can't be figuring out fundamentals at the tournament.

Creaming themselves over trying to get Ramsdale (who is absolutely shite by the way) or the other dope Pope in goal, like they'd have won the fuckin Euro's or something for the nation.

The media are laughable.

Its a weird one. If wed won I could see Southgate going out while hes as the top. If we were well beaten I could see him quitting due to abuse. A narrow defeat makes me think he will stay on. He said making a final after 66 made history, getting in one overseas made history, so he may feel hes making step by step with the last step being winning the WC. Im thinking we are at a cross roads now with Kane like we were previously with Rooney and Beckham. I hate this stupid Steve MacLaren announcing Beckham was done, or the likes of Vardy retiring. So Im not suggesting Kane is or should he done as an England player but he is or should be at the stage Thomas Muller has been in for about five years where he went from automatic starter and key man to squad member who may or may not play.

The he goes and plays media lover boy, Arnold in MF, trippier at LB, leaves out Branthwaite cos he plays for Everton, leaves out DCL for the same reason, takes Wharton for some reason then doesnt play him, plays Foden out of position. I could go on all night. Only our Jordan came out of that game with his honour intact.

How can you win if you stop playing any time the game is level? Surely we weren't playing for penalties? I don't really get that approach.

Southgate is a nearly man but he deserves a lot of praise for getting England to two major finals, considering they have only ever been in three, but when I heard the commentator saying Gallagher and Trippier, were getting ready to come on, it explained a lot about how Southgate, approaches the game.

I shouldnt be critical, because this is possibly the hardest football tournament to win, especially when you look at the three teams the Spanish have beaten in the knockout stages.

4 minutes left in a final, you stay compact and leave no gaps - which is exactly what we didn't do. We paid the price for not being compact at the end. Poor game management once we were in that situation.

Two euro finals
One world cup semi
One world cup quarter

Name an England manager who has done better in the past 58 years

Spain work exceptionally hard in possession - and are brave and inventive in their passing. We are not.

Spain also play with width and pace. We do not.

Southgate has raised the bar for England and managed to remove the toxic egos. He leaves now having done a really good job. But the bar needs raising further still.

Its funny you mention toxic egos. I thought the same thing as you but apparently others see it differently. There was a piece on BBC asking fans of other neutral countries who they wanted to win, Most said Spain cause they play better football others said our players are arrogant and obnoxious on social media so they dont like them. Apparently Palmer separately wound Spain up at the under 21 final last year by taunting their bench. Then today Markus Babble is claiming Bellingham has a massive ego problem. Dont shoot the messenger. I havent perceived this team to be obnoxious or arrogant certainly not like the likes of John Terry. But rightly or wrongly a lot of people (maybe jealous?) perceive them that way.

I'm still seething about Kilbane and Caldwell blaming Pickford. Run into Caldwell sometimes at TFC (Toronto) matches. I'm likely to end up in hospital next time because I'm gonna unload on the stupid prick, and he's a big boy.

By weakest do you mean lack of good teams? If so I agree but I think its fatigue from over playing. Madrid just agreed to pay Mbappe 300 million over several years but did he look like a shadow of himself here? Bernardo Silva, Fernandes, Hernandez, Griezman etc none of these guys had more than flashes of brilliance. In contrast the RS Dutchman was great but he spent half the season on the bench as did Toni Kroos who was great. I think the over full calendar sucked the life out of players including Kane, Foden and Bellingham, Walker. Stones was good but barely played last season. Only really Saka of those who played a lot was closed to his best. Obviously Pickford and Guehi too but neither of them played European club football all season or had to contend with lengthy cup runs. The number of games played is killing the quality of these tournaments. On paper this should have been much more entertaining than it was although the fatigue factor helped bring some excitement with less knackered Georgia etc bringing some joy.

From us in the second half we achieved only two attempts on goal.

WTF?

I watched the '66 WC final re-run earlier in the day and the ball was continually passed forward by both teams for the entire match, and some say "football's moved on!"

Yeah right!

Talking of old times, I watched highlights of WC 90 and realized Id totally forgotten that before he skied a penalty, Waddle had hit the woodwork twice and been denied a clear penalty. Talk about unlucky I remember he missed a cup final pen for Sheff Wed too. Keep that man away from England and Everton hes like a ladder, black cat, and cracked mirror rolled into one.

If anything I'd argue that it's the opposition of England that has generally made comments about England, while the English players have gone almost overboard in trying to show respect to opponents.

I think a lot of it comes from just wanting to argue against the biggest league in the world.

I havent looked but Im inclined to believe that. Any time I see Saka and co talk they seem level headed and respectful. I cant imagine they or rather their PR people go online and portray them as ass holes.

Although he was in the game a little more tonight, I still think Bellingham under performed, I was waiting for him to take the game by the scruff of the neck, demanding the ball but never saw that in any of the other games.

Kane had an absolute stinker of a tournament, tonight was the first time Southgate took him off earlier.

Then you have an injured passenger who only made the semi finals, Shaw.

Grealish and Branthwaite must be thinking how did we not make that squad, add Gordon to zero minutes, and Toney and Watkins cameo appearances.

We got lucky in nearly every single game of the Tournament, and to be honest a very easy run to the semi finals, avoiding all the big teams, with possibly only Holland and Spain the two hardest games we came against.

How many times did a ball fall to one of our players in attack that either appeared to wrong foot the player or they had to try and put the ball on their other foot, by which time the chance to take a shot on was gone.

We were unlucky near the end when those three chances came, and their player cleared it off the line, but at the other end I just do not have the answer why Walker didnt slide in to put the ball out for a throw in for them, instead of letting him cross it first time.

All being well Southgate will be on his way, but at the same time as proved over the years, the same players will be selected from which team they play for, instead of form players from other teams.

Until we start selecting players from their club form, instead of the club badge they play for, we will always end up falling short.

I disagree on the easy run. Switzerland came within a whisker of beating Germany and easily beat Italy. They may not be a big name but they played well. Slovakia beat the mythical Belgian golden generation so again they had something about them.

You get to the point of compromising or simply not selecting.

Saka's position was a huge compromise to get his talent into the side. Rice isn't really a holding midfielder but gets that role for England. None of the defence play that formation typically.

It all ended up a bit dysfunctional, hence the reliance on "big moments".

Kane is the best example. Even taking out of the equation that he seemed unfit to play, he's not the striker to lead that team. You either build the team around him (ie give him someone who will make runs beyond him so he can drop into space) or you just don't bother with him. It doesn't mean he's a bad player, just that he's not the right fit. Instead we had a striker who likes to drop into space and two number 10s hoping to operate in that same space.

And that's where the club form argument fails. You can't just select on form. That's going to lead to more compromises than ever.

It's got to be a balanced approach. Generally I think that's where Southgate has done well - he's had that "club environment" thing going. I just think he failed to address the Kane situation and it was a huge one. Kane's "big moments" weren't enough to make up for his non-contribution.

With one of the best squads in the tournament we, somehow, staggered into the Final despite his mismanagement all over the park.

In the initial games Trippier and Arnold (for some reason a media darling) were completely out of their depth and all over the pitch players were played out of the club positions which had got them selected in the first place.

Harry Feign was way off the pace albeit he was feeding off scraps and Rice never really got into any game. Probably the most disappointing of the hyped players was Bellingham who was played far too deep. Both the full back positions were problematic and this was never resolved.

Substitutions were usually not to change the pattern of play etc but as a last desperate throw of the dice to rescue a game. Tonight it didn't work.

All of these issues were never adequately addressed by Southgate. England reached the Final despite the manager not because of him.

Apart from Pickford and Stones, overall England successes were difficult to choose, basically because most of them were poor.

I'm just glad we didn't lose through a Pickford error because the pundits and media would have crucified him.

Watching Kane lumber around made me think he is either knackered or unfit. Watkins is no world beater but when he and Palmer came on, all of a sudden there are people making runs. Until then you had the Everton scene of people waving their arms because they had no runners. Dyche, like Southgate, makes few or very late subs but at least he has the excuse of a rubbish bench.

If Southgate goes into EPL management, I expect him to fail. He's been lucky with the quality of players he's had and lucky with the draw. Two classic examples of stupidity, first not taking a single fit left back, second in the knockout stage, bringing on Toney 4 minutes into injury time, with us 1-0 down. It's not enough to say, oh he contributed to the winning goal after Bellingham's equaliser. He got lucky with that. It was a brain fart of a decision, it's the side who are winning who bring on subs with 2 minutes left of injury time. And you could see what Toney thought of it

Englands best players throughout the tournament for me were -

Pickford, Walker Stones Guehi Palmer - who were all 8/10s every game. Other players had at least one stinker on the way to the final. The player I felt most sorry for was Foden. A great player sadly misused in several matches.

I expect to see Walker and Stones in the team of the Tournament XI.

Going forward, Southgate should leave. He's done a very good job but we need someone with a more attacking attitude to get the best out of the wonderful players England has at the moment, if we are to win a tournament.
Subs such as Watkins deserved better. Why. he didn't start tonight only Southgate knows.

To me the key was Kane. If you play Kane then you're wasting Foden and Bellingham. He plays in their space and gives them nothing in the way of movement towards goal. Bellingham can be squeezed in as a midfielder and still be worthwhile but Foden might as well have stayed home for the birth of his first child.

If you're going to play Kane you might as well leave these creative number 10 types at home and select a second striker or Sterling. Sterling was the one who made England dangerous with Kane, just as Son did for Spurs.

It would be a brave man to bench England's greatest ever goalscorer when he's seemingly still in his prime, and that's where I think Southgate fell short. I think being a brave leader has been the mark of his overall tenure (well, the early part mainly) but he fell short on this occasion.

Hoping Colombia can beat the horrible Argies to salvage something out of today. Though I expect the officials to hand it to Messi and co.

Carsley follows the Southgate model. Absolute known quantity for them.

Yeah seems all the calls going Argies way and theyre doing their best Uruguay impression in terms of behavior

I can breathe for the coming years.Southgate will have his usual delayed decision in the hope that he will get to the World Cup.The FA will be happy with a Final appearance and steady as she goes and Man U fans will be able to breathe again.

Going 4-4-1-1 in a final was negative and it was just a matter of time before Spain sorted us out.

I'm all for new supporters getting into the beautiful game, but I was watching people who obviously had not had much experience watching football. Some of the comments were ridiculous.

Fair credit to the England supporters. They done their part and travelled in their thousands.

Now we can get back to Everton. Sligo Rovers and Roma. I'll try to make Coventry.

Everton the Gear

Great analysis.

A manager who is going to win anything has to play to the strengths of the players rather than the team. Dycheball or similar may suit the managers insecurities, but it takes players to be in a system where they are playing at the top of their game. This is especially so when the players in depth are available.

Spain have nailed that transformation. The FA are a long way off that. I remember Spain in the 1980s and Northern Ireland beating them, after preparing in Brighton.

We used to have a serious ego problem and cliques in the squad (Gerrard era) but that seems to have gone - although I thought Bellingham showed signs of believing his own hype and I was annoyed with Saka (who otherwise has been very good) when he clearly didn't want to play left back when we needed him to (against Slovakia?).

The (presumably new) manager will need to sort this out.

Given the strength of England as a footballing location it's stretching the probability percentages that we haven't won anything in approaching 60 years.

There's got to be some reason. Half these players are playing under Spanish managers... It's not like they're 4-4-2 and "Hit Les".

A brave manager wouldve realised Kane and Bellingham were not a 100%. That if we were going to play on the counterattack we needed faster players and that Rice needed a dependable partner in MF to form an understanding and not just throwing in the flavour of the month to see if it worked.

Anyway, Ive now resigned myself to never seeing England or Everton ever winning another major tournament in my lifetime. Its the hope that kills.